Circumcision and the Israelite entry into the Promised Land

Hey Joshua,

This verse could possibly be referring to the second time that circumcision was done  enmasse. The previous time could be when Abraham was given the seal of circumcision.

Or

This second physical circumcision could also mean that the first circumcision was a Spiritual one. A 'cleansing in the wilderness' so to speak. Then this physical circumcision would be the final culmination, the final sign of the circumcision of the heart.

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I think you pretty much cover a lot of the details. The explanation in vs 5 pretty much shoots down the Egyptian circumcision theory in my eyes.

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No, I do not believe the group as a whole kept Passover in the wilderness after year two. The reason being that no uncircumcised could eat of it. Of course, My belief on this is not dogmatic.

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It seems plausible that they no longer circumcised their children when the promise of the promised land was removed. They no longer had the promise, and neither did their children, as they were not circumcised.

This actually seems to have been possibly by command unwritten, as the children were eligible for the promise, (those under twenty yrs of age) but the parents not.

In order to prevent division, perhaps circumcision was commanded not to be done at the eight days so that all of Israel was to be cut off until a later time, such as when they became circumcised.

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The forty years in the wilderness can also be seen as a cleansing from the idolatrous ways of Egypt. Sometimes a "blank" time is needed to so to speak "wipe the slate clean".  This way the paganism of Egypt would not be as readily mixed with YHWH's Torah.

 ie: rolling back the reproach of Egypt, with circumcision being the grand finale.

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As far as YHWH waiting until they entered Canaan, well, they were in a hostile country, and what better demonstration of His protection than to have them be weakened in the country of their enemies.

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some of the things that seemed possible anyways.

Oh, and your question about who did Cain marry?

 His wife , of course!

YHWH Bless you as you seek His will,

Shalom, Brian

HELLO EVERYONE FROM AN EXGENTILE. I am now an engrafted Jewish teacher and new to the forum.
Concerning wilderness circumcision, I suggest reading Num.8;9-22 The Levites, chosen by God, took the place of all Israel until they reached the Promised Land, which made them mediators for them which pictures Jesus as ours today. He is our circumcision and redeemer. Praise God for evermore!

Shalom,

I want to offer a study I did on circumcision, which is listed on my website, I will also post it here. Thanks, Ariyah

UnCircumcision or Circumcision, Did Rav Sha'ul teach the Torah?

"You are to keep my covenant, you, and your descendants after you, generation after generation. Here is my Covenant which you are to keep, between me and you, along with your descendants after you:

Every male among you is to be circumcised, you are to be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin: (this will be the sign of the covenant between me and you).

Every male eight days old is to be circumcised, including slaves, and those bought from a foreigner, not descended from you- any uncircumcised male who will not let himself be circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person will be cut off, because he has broken my covenant." Bereshith 17:9-14

This is the Torah for Passover, no uncircumcised person shall eat it.....One law shall be to him who is an Israelite and to the non-Israelite." Shemot 12:43-49

This is our foundation, the Torah. We will build on this:

"Behold the days come, says YHWH, that I will punish all them which are circumcised (in flesh) with the uncircumcised (in flesh). For all these nations are uncircumcised and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised of the Heart." YermeYahu 9:25-26

Here is the uncircumcised of Israel, being punished with the uncircumcised as well.

The Tanak as a whole supports Circumcison of the Flesh and the Heart, this is what YHWH required of them from the beginning.

"Some men came down from Judah to Antioch and began to teach the brothers "You can't be saved unless you undergo b'rit-milah = covenant of circumcision, as in the manner prescribed by Moshe." Jewish NT by David Stern, Acts 15:1

Here is the conflict of circumcision through the rest of the B'rit Chadasha: Circumcison (conversion to Judaism) as your salvation. They did not simply view this covenant as the covenant of Avraham, but as is today, a means of Salvation in order for conversion.

"Sha'ul wanted Timothy to accompany him, so Sha'ul had Timothy circumcised." Acts 16:3

"For circumcision is of value if you do what the Torah says, But if you are a transgressor of Torah your circumcision has become uncircumcision!" .....v.28 True circumcision is NOT ONLY external and Physical" Romans 2:25-29

It takes circumcision of the Flesh and the Heart!

We see so far the Tanak and the B'rit Chadasha are in agreement.

"YHWH shall consider righteous, the circumcised on the grounds of trusting and the uncircumcised through the same grounds. Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven Forbid! On the contrary, we confirm the Torah." Romans 3:30-31

"Is this blessing for circumcised only? Or is it also for the uncircumcised? For we say that Avraham's trust was credited to his account as righteousness, but what state was he in when it was so credited - circumcision or uncircumcision? Not in circumcision but in uncircumcision! Avraham received his circumcision as a seal, a sign of the righteousness he had been credited with on the grounds of trust he had while uncircumcised!" Romans 4:9-12

Commentary: Avraham had faith/trust, and it was credited to him before circumcision, according to most interpretations of the B'rit Chadasha that's all he needed. But no, he sealed this with the circumcision of the Flesh! I ask you, Does our trust abolish Torah? Heaven Forbid!

"Was someone circumcised when he was called? or uncircumcised? Circumcision or uncircumcision means nothing, but what means something is obeying YHWH's mitzvat (commandments)! 1 Cor 7:17-19

"They saw that I (Sha'ul) had been entrusted with the Good news for the Uncircumcised...v12 Kefa feared those who favored circumcising Gentiles, the Jewish believers became Hypocrites along with them...v14 they denied salvation through Y'shua (Preaching conversion by circumcision). Galatians 2:7-16

When we are in Y'shua, being circumcised or uncircumcised doesn't matter; what matters is trusting faithfulness, expressing itself through love." Galatians 4:9-12

Remember Avraham recieved righteousness through his faith prior to circumcision of the Flesh. (Circumcision of the heart first, then the flesh).

"It is those who want to look good outwardly who are trying to get you to be circumcised. The only reason they are doing it is to escape persecution for preaching about Mashiach (circumcision as salvation) For even those who are getting circumcised don't observe the Torah (not circumcised in Heart) They want you to be circumcised so they can boast of having gained your adherence." (boasting of conversion) Galatians 6:12-13

"For there are many, especially from those of the circumcision, who are rebellious, who delude people's mind, with their worthless and mis-leading talk...pay no attention to Jewish myths or to commands of people who reject truth." Titus 1:10-14

Again, this is concerning not whether or not we honor the covenant of Avraham, it is concerning circumcision of the heart (i.e. "who are rebellious", "a people whoo reject Truth").

"Therefore, remember your former state: you Goyim by birth - caleld the Uncircumcised by those who merely because of an operation on their flesh, are called the Circumcised, at that time had no Mashiach. You were enstranged from the national life of Israel. You were foreigners to the covenant's embodying God's promise...But now, you who were once afar off have been brought near through the shedding of Mashiach's Blood...So then, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, On the contrary, you are fellow-citizens with God's people and members of His Family..." Ephesians 2:11-22

"At that time I will be going against them, bringing them into the lands of their enemies. But if their uncircumcised hearts will grow hunble...then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, Isaac, and Avraham, and I will remember the land." Leviticus 26:41-42

"You brought foreigners, uncircumcised in both heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary and profane it...No foreigner, uncircumcised in both heart and flesh is to enter into my sanctuary." Ezekiel 44:7-9

Final Thought:

I believe YHWH has always recgonized circumcision of our Hearts, this does not effect our physical circumcision. As Sha'ul taught, circumcision is nothing and Mashiach is everything! Our salvation is not in circumcision, sabbath keeping, or conversion to Judaism. It is faith in Mashiach Y'shua. Our faith will bring obedience to the Torah...

There is not one Scripture that teaches us not do be circumcised in the flesh, but to be circumcised in the Heart and the Flesh! Avraham's faith was rewarded in his uncircumcision, but he still became circumcised in his flesh afterwards.

What am I saying? I am saying our circumcision of the heart is most important, which is accepting Mashiach Y'shua of Israel. Then obedience to the Torah.

I think because the teachers of Torah tried to relate the spiritual definitions of the covenant of YHWH, we, in our western mindset attempt to pervert this, and in turn teach against the very Torah spoken by YHWH.

I believe each person, after believing in Y'shua must begin to walk in the Torah. Shalom

Your post is really awesome man. Thanks for sharing it. You really rock.
Regards,
Earvin James

You were foreigners to the covenant's embodying God's promise But now, you who were once afar off have been brought near through the shedding of Mashiach's Blood>regards>AAroon121

I think mthe moral should be "Then obedience to the Torah".
NIce job;

I believe YHWH has always recgonized circumcision of our Hearts, this does not effect our physical circumcision.Thanks for post the blog.

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It seems reasonable that since Joshua 5 says it was those who were born in the wilderness that were not circumcised that is what it means. Those over 8 days old as of the Passover in Egypt were circumcised. So they knew what circumcision was. In that case we can take what it says at face value and presume it is talking of a second mass circumcision like what must have occurred before the Passover in Egypt.

To understand why Israel did not circumcise their children, consider that Abraham was only circumcised (Gen 17:24) long after receiving the covenant (Gen 15:9-18). Circumcision was added as a sign of that covenant later. Abraham received the covenant because He obeyed the Laws of Yahweh (Gen 26:1-5). So Yahweh’s law does not include circumcision. Circumcision, as a sign, was simply an outward indication that Abraham was honoring His covenant. Circumcision was not expected from the beginning.

Yahweh did not seem upset in the least that Israel did not circumcise their children in the wilderness. Certainly that was not the case when Israel disrespected the Sabbath (Ex 16:28). Considering that He almost killed Moses for not circumcising his son (Ex 4:24-26), the casual nature of the Joshua account seems odd.

Consider that Israel made their own covenant with Yahweh (Ex 20-24). This was after Moses son was circumcised. Circumcision is not mentioned in that covenant. The sign of that covenant was the keeping of the Sabbaths (Ex 31:13-18), not circumcision. Consequently, throughout their time in the wilderness circumcision was not a stipulation of their governing law. Their own covenant would have taken precedence over the covenant made with Abraham.

The circumcision instruction of Leviticus 12 was probably given shortly after the episode of the golden calf (Ex 32:7-10, 33:7, Lev 1:1). Moses moved his tent far from the congregation. Yahweh separated Himself from them. With the golden calf Israel destroyed their relationship with Yahweh and was in danger of being destroyed. That didn’t happen thanks to Moses (Ps 106:23), but it was after that time that the Levitical system, central worship at the tabernacle and regular sacrifices began to be implemented. There was also other new instruction (Ex 34:32).

These things were not part of the Sinai covenant and couldn’t be added to it (Gal 3:15). One doesn't change covenants. They became part of another covenant that was not confirmed or fully implemented until about the time Israel went into the Promised Land (Deu 1:1-5, 29:1, 9,12, 31:24-26, 12:8-14).

Circumcision was not directly mentioned in Deuteronomy. However, by that time Leviticus had been written. Moses spoke “according to all that ...[Yahweh]had given him as commandments to them” (Deu 1:3). He didn’t repeat every word, but previously written instruction was assumed. Consequently when Israel actually entered the Promised Land after confirming this second covenant Yahweh made clear circumcision was intended in that covenant and they circumcised their males.

This second covenant was made at the behest of Moses to allow Israel to live (Deu 4:1, 5:32, 6:24 etc), hence, it is the Law of Moses (Josh 23:6). Abraham did not follow this Law, although there is much overlap. He never tithed to Levi nor did he bring his offerings to the altar in front of the Tabernacle. They are two overlapping but distinct laws.

By closely examining these covenants we can learn the difference between the Law of Yahweh and the Law of Moses. We can know what was from the beginning and what was added because of transgressions. Circumcision is not part of the Law of Yahweh. While uncircumcised Abraham kept Yahweh’s laws. Paul acknowledged the importance of keeping the commandments in opposition to circumcision (1Cor 7:19). Circumcision is not a part of the commandments. The covenant of Exodus 20 is based on the commandments, His covenant, so circumcision is not included.

As stated elsewhere, Yahweh is interested in the condition of our heart and mind (Rom 2:26-29). The circumcision He is interested in is a matter of the heart.

Sorry I'm late. :-) Hope that helps.

Everett